Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 12 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1091



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Interesting SF Art
Re: MT Deckplan queries
Re: GIFs & copyright
Re: MegaTraveller ship design help...
Re: Wotc
Re: WotC and Hasbro
Re: Hasbro & WotC (Humor)
Re: Science Q: Star Position Accuracy
Re: WoTC
Re: MT Deckplan queries
Re: Naff (was Re: Vacuum Tube Computers)
Re: Handling a new technology in a game
Geologically Active Worlds
Re: Handling a new technology in a game
Fw: [gwmg] - Re: Fw: WoTC
Re: Question regarding software for Traveller gaming
Re: WoTC
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1087
re; Tanstaafl
Re: MT Deckplan queries
Re: WotC & Hasbro
Re: WotC & Hasbro

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:11:03 -0400
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com>
Subject: Re: Interesting SF Art

At 08:38 PM 9/11/99 -0300, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:

>         Take a peek at
>"http://www.digital-domains.com/goblin/640X480SF.html"...  interesting stuff.

This stuff is very cool. I especially like the pictures from the perspective
of a gas giant moon. (Jesse has a bunch of pictures like that too.) Since we
are well aware that life is unlikely to come about on a simple terrestrial
planet...


- --
Tardy robber.. Order By Brat.. Tardy Bob ERR.. Retry bad Rob.. Retro by bard
Robert Brady                                        robb at datatone dot com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:49:00 -0400
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: Re: MT Deckplan queries

>I don't think the cost differential is all that great, it's more of a
>maintenance issue.  It would be interesting to introduce a design tradeoff
>between 'prettiness' of internal spaces and maintenance cost/difficulty;
>for example, you have to declare during design that a ship will be
>suitable for carrying high passengers, and this increases the difficulty
>and time for maintenance tasks one level.

I would hope that in 3000 years that designers would develop the
intelligence to install jointer bulkheads as fair size removable panels that
can easily be moved out of the way to allow access beneath.

In an off topic statement: Isn't it a little foolish that we build our
houses with gypsum panels taped and mudded together so as to make the
mechanicals all inaccessible once installed. The technology certainly exists
to have walls made of removable panels that would allow easy access to
power, phone, computer and piping lines without resort to a drywaller.  Of
course most places, in the U.S. at least, actively prevent you from using
any other kind of wall construction. If I was a suspicious person I'd think
that they were holding back homebuilding innovation on purpose.

Terry C

All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:29:26 -0600
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: GIFs & copyright

>    Just thought I should mention this. Apparently Unisys is threatening to 
>sue anybody you uses GIFs on their web sites if it's not made by software 
>that has licensed the format from them (and of course there is no list of 
>official software that has purchased this license), so if you can't prove 
>your site uses GIFs created by software that has been licensed you are open 
>to a lawsuit (and you need to prove that all the Gif's where licensed).

Given the staggeringly huge number of web sites out there, for Unisys to
start filing suit against everyone using GIF images on their site would 
mean that the courts would be filled with nothing but copyright infringement
suits for the GIF format for the next several hundred years. I doubt this
will happen... I am inclined to put this news into the same file as the
"Post office will start charging for e-mail" and "FCC to institute a 
modem tax" reports...

- -- g


     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
        "There is no longer any normal to be"
                                 -- Gary Numan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:30:42 +0100
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller ship design help...

On Fri, 10 Sep 99 21:11:24 +0000, Andy(igor@truserve.com) wrote:

>Subject: MegaTraveller ship design help...

>Does anyone out there have a MT ship design spreadsheet or program? I'm
trying to
>design a ship in MT, and I think I'm screwing it up - 'cause some of the
numbers are
>just turning out wacky. And yes, I have the MT errata...

>In particular, this thing appears to need a s**tload of power plant fuel,
much more
>than any other version of Traveller. I'm baffled. Either that or I'm
calculating the
>power plant too large or something...

>Any help would be appreciated...

>Andy

Andy,

I think (IIRC), Imperiallines #1 had a workround on this. I take it your
ships all have
energy weaponry? If so, is it really necessary to have them capable of
firing during
the whole of the duration of fuel consumption? Wouldn't be a lot of ship
left after 30
days continuous combat, would there? Simply create a second power plant with
a
much smaller duration, say 10%.

Another trick is to cut the fuel requirements for maneuver whilst in jump.
(Dunno if
this one has been mentioned in print before) Also, no grav plates / extended
life
support in fuel tankage, or other dead areas of the ship.

The only other thing I can think of is to ensure you are using the Scale
Efficiency
tables for Power Plants.


Hope this helps, but I don't know exactly how much is official.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:20:27 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Wotc

>From: "Peter  Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
>Subject: Wotc
...
>Over in the Uk the main reason these are available (occasionally and usually
>tucked away) in chain stores/book stores are that there are hardly any games
>stores open anymore (other than <spit> Games Worksop.

  And their market penetration in NorAm is only around 25% of the UK's; 
the shape of things to come, perchance?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 99 22:13:54 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: WotC and Hasbro

On 09/10/99 at 04:25 PM,  scharlto@ifsna.com said:

>Hasbro has licensed out Avalon Hill's best selling game, the Squad
>Leader series, to a company headed by a major league pitcher whose
>name suddenly escapes me.  

Curt Schilling?  He is reportedly a big wargame fan, and any major
league sports star should have plenty of money to take a flier.  

Any celebrity Traveller's lurking out there?  Nah, I thought not. <g>

>They have also announced their intention
>to re-introduce about a dozen of the best Avalon Hill wargame titles,
>probably in the year 2000, and these will possibly be distributed
>through their normal game channels. That means we might see Panzer
>Blitz at TRU once again.

That I hadn't heard, and it's not only good news, it's new I didn't
expect to hear.

>As for WotC, the initial Hasbro announcement said that WotC would
>continue as a wholly-owned subsidiary, managed by most of the same
>people currently managing WotC.  This might change, especially since
>some of this management are now ridiculously wealthy and may not be
>all that interested in being employees of Hasbro.  But I would
>suspect that Hasbro will either leave WotC alone and reap the
>profits, or it will license out the RPG properties to a new company
>(possibly headed by the aforementioned WotC management).

>Effects on the gaming world in general?  It is possible that Hasbro
>will open their distribution channels to WotC, which menas you might
>see an increased presence of RPGs in mainstream toy stores and large
>retail chains.  This can only be a good thing for the rest of the RPG
>world, since AD&D has always been the enabler game that brings new
>blood into the RPG world.  I doubt that Hasbro will 'soften' D&D if
>WotC is maintained as a subsidiary, but I imagine it is possible.

>Perhaps in Christmas 2000 we will see a Paladin, Orc and Ranger GI
>Joe!

Now, *that* will be the day!  However, if they could leverage a
popular cartoon series with toy spin offs from it then...

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 99 22:21:29 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Hasbro & WotC (Humor)

On 09/10/99 at 12:05 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:

>'Twas thinking that myself...be great for those roadtrip dungeon
>crawls ;-)
 
>> Hey, given the way *some* players manage to roll "off the table" with
>> most rolls, I think I'd *buy* some "pop-o-matics" with polyhedral dice!

Gee whiz, guys!  Grab a few of those little clear plastic hosery
eggs.  Pop in the polyhedrons of your choice. Shake and bake!

They are small enough to hold in your hand while you are out hiking
and slip in your pocket when you need both hands, and they cost only
a few seconds of time.

Eris,
    the cheap!
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:46:06 -0700
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Science Q: Star Position Accuracy

>Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear--I'm familiar with the mathematical
>underpinning. I'm trying to figure out how accurately, right now
>(1999), a spacecraft with star trackers could determine its position
>at any given time within our solar system, strictly based on star
>mapping. In other words, all I'm looking for is how well we know the
>position of various stars? I can find out the accuracies of the star
>trackers themselves. Together, the two will tell me how big the error
>volume is.

The best star catalogs (like the Hipparcos catalog) is generally good
to ~few milliarcseconds on most stars; a handful of more fundamental
reference stars, and quasars whose positions are measured with
radioastronomy, might have positions better than a milliarcsecond.

This turns out to be a bad way to navigate around our solar system,
because the parallax on most of these stars is small enough that even
a milliarcsecond error in knowing the stars position translates to a huge
uncertainty in your baseline (eg your position). Navigating with multiple
sightings on in-system asteroids (eg what DS1 did) is probably better;
the asteroid positions are poor, but the parallax is huge.

(email me privately if you'd like references to on-line versions of the
positional catalogs.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:46:16 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: WoTC

>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
>Subject: Re: WoTC
...
>I think there's a very strong argument for it. The vast majority of
>roleplayers that I've run into first get into roleplaying via AD&D. It is

  Upon further consideration, you're probably right - it's a scary scenario.

...
>Because it's not a real possibility, at least not in the U.S. at this time.
>The high cost and immense time requirements involved in GW's miniatures
>games turns alot of people off. The punk-orc / elf sensibility doesn't seem
>to have a real appeal with an audience the size of AD&D.

  Well, GW has an RPG or two if it wants, and their efforts in the US haven't
been money-losers; they've been too slavish over the years to following the
UK model (install their own stores _everywhere_), but they seem to do fairly
well getting their product out when they want to.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 99 23:01:02 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: MT Deckplan queries

On 09/11/99 at 05:30 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>It's possible to rig a setup that'll freeze the CO2 out of the air.
>So that's not too bad. But I'd have to look up the amount of O2
>humans use per day. That's your limit for refugees. 

>I seriously doubt that the "air limit" can be stretched much. Just
>about any *practical* kludge will have already been built into the
>air system. 

About O2...

I've wondered if, given that the energy was available (fusion), why
you couldn't crack the CO2 and recover *all* the oxygen.  If that's
true, then if you've got enough air for everyone for the few hours
it takes to break the CO2 back down, you have enough air for
everyone for as long as you can keep recyling it.  Right?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 99 23:18:08 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Naff (was Re: Vacuum Tube Computers)

On 09/11/99 at 05:48 PM,  "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> said:

>>"Tanstaafl!"

>???  Never seen this one.  what's it mean?

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <reddoch_j@firn.edu>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 99 23:35:42 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Handling a new technology in a game

On 09/12/99 at 12:21 AM,  Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk> said:

>On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, Steve Fellows wrote:
>>The other day, David Smart (a fellow TMLer) sent me a message regarding
>>a new device NASA is building for its astronauts. Its a small little ball that
>>floats along with the astronaut performing a personal data assistant function.  Check it
>>out, its at http://space.com/spaceimagined/psa_ball.html

>What you point out to players is that it's only useful in zero grav.
>Otherwise it's an expensive football. 

<sigh>

I wouldn't point anything out to *those* players.  I would run
them through a very short game where they all died...

Player 2: "You can't just say we are dead!"

GM:  "Sure I can, You're all dead and none of your efforts do more
than make your death more painful."

Hell, the star in the system they are in would go nova in a
heartbeat if any players acted like that.  If I had players that
acted like that I'd go looking for some other people to play with.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:56:11 +0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: Geologically Active Worlds

If you want a geologically active world you can't go past the moon of a gas
giant. Using WBH treat the moon as the main world and work at the seismic
stress factor using the gas giant as the moon you will be amazed at some of
the stress factors that show up. Io is probably an examply of a very common
world type.

Antony Farrell

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:19:52 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Handling a new technology in a game

>Hell, the star in the system they are in would go nova in a
>heartbeat if any players acted like that.  If I had players that
>acted like that I'd go looking for some other people to play with.
>
>Eris

Hehe, I was running around in a Traveller game once, and on a silly day of
gaming, told the GM I was doing a "tap dance" after something important came
up and he asked me what was I going to do.

His reply as I remember was something like :

You see a thousand battledressed lizard troops with FGMP-14's come running
up over the hill towards you.  Are you SURE you want to do a tap dance?????

:)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:20:32 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Fw: [gwmg] - Re: Fw: WoTC

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Reginald Blue <bluerv@surfree.com>
To: <gammaworld@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 12:47 AM
Subject: [gwmg] - Re: Fw: WoTC


> Just curious:  How certain are you that WoTC owns Andon?
>
> AFAICT it's a separate company altogether.
>
> Reggie
>
> On Friday, September 10, 1999 8:54 AM, Chris Conboy
[SMTP:cconboy@optonline.net] wrote:
> >
> >
> > -WoTC owns Andon Unlimited - Origins and GenCon, others.
> > (not to mention Magic Pro Tour New York, in Secaucus, New Jersey, hee
hee!)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
> Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/805
>
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/gammaworld
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:14:23 -0700
From: "B. Mallory" <bmallory@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Question regarding software for Traveller gaming

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> snip
> No _formal_ standard (a la NBS/ISO) has, to my knowledge, ever
> been promulgated - but, at least for stellar data, there are two
> _de_facto_ standards that seem to be established - and from what
> I can recall of one of them, they're very close to being
> compatible with each other from off the mark.  Look at the data
> files that come with Jim Vassilakos's GALACTIC program, and also
> at the old Sunbane sector archives.  There's a link to GALACTIC
> in the Freelance Traveller (http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller or
> http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm) Computer
> Connection in the Information Center - look for programs for
> MS-DOS systems.  I can't help you with the Sunbane data; I'm not
> sure of where it is, myself.
> snip
> I like the idea of a standard data format for each type of data,
> for the reasons you give - but I question whether one can
> successfully promulgate one by fiat. I suspect that what needs to
> happen is that some program - or program suite - that is widely
> available becomes popular for manipulating the necessary data,
> thus establishing _its_ data file format as the de facto
> standard. If, however, people want to get into a 'standards
> committee' type of mode, I'll gladly participate and give my
> input.
> --
 Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com

Jeff,
     Your phrasing about getting into a standards committee mode sounds
intimidating.  While I feel that a usefull set of data file formats can
be made that would be of reasonable size and flexability I am not sure
that I want to start with a task of that large a scope.  My first
inquiry was to find out about the current state of affairs regarding
this.  Now that you hav pointed out some that already exist I will try
to take advantage of them.
     As for data formats for characters, ships, etc. I would certainly
like to get your input on how best to approach these.  I would like to
focus on making them workable for Classic Traveller first with the
ability to adapt to other systems.  I would especially need help with
Gurps Traveller issues.
     To give you an example of what I had been thinking of for character
data, I had thought to provide five data types. The data would be in an
ascii file that could be appended as needed.  The data types would be
Identity, Statistic, Dividend, Skill and Posession. Parameterized values
would be used to keep track of such things as when you last picked up
your pension check but the damage a weapon in your possesion could do
would not as that may fluctuate with the version of the game being
used.  Please let me know what your ideas are.
     Thanks
bmallory@earthlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:21:27 -0400
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: WoTC

- -----Original Message-----
From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Saturday, September 11, 1999 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: WoTC


>>I think there's a very strong argument for it. The vast majority of
>>roleplayers that I've run into first get into roleplaying via AD&D. It is
>
>  Upon further consideration, you're probably right - it's a scary
scenario.


I'm not sure that I'd really consider it really frightening. If TSR's D&D
products were the only ones out there, that might be a little bit
frightening. If it gets people into the hobby and helps to create a market
for other RPGs, I'm not really going to complain or worry about it. In fact,
since the hobby wouldn't have lasted as long as it did without the game, I
can only be glad that it's there.

>...
>>Because it's not a real possibility, at least not in the U.S. at this
time.
>>The high cost and immense time requirements involved in GW's miniatures
>>games turns alot of people off. The punk-orc / elf sensibility doesn't
seem
>>to have a real appeal with an audience the size of AD&D.
>
>  Well, GW has an RPG or two if it wants, and their efforts in the US
haven't
>been money-losers; they've been too slavish over the years to following the
>UK model (install their own stores _everywhere_), but they seem to do
fairly
>well getting their product out when they want to.


Yes, but there's a big difference between getting a product out if they want
to and becoming an industry leader able to fill the vacuum that would be
created if TSR were to crash and burn (which is what you seemed to be
worried about). There's only one store in Philly that's willing to sell GW
products, and they don't really carry a wide selection. I can think of five
stores in the same general geographic area that carry TSR and White Wolf,
two that carry Palladium and two that carry GURPS.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:25:17 +0900
From: "Mark A. Adamski" <lazy01@inet.att.co.kr>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1087

unsubscribe traveller-digest

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:14:22 +0100
From: "Peter  Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: re; Tanstaafl

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

First place I see it mentioned is in Heinlein's outstanding book, The Moon
is a Harsh Mistress.  Where it is a common saying (indeed a description of
the entire society) and  becomes the motto of the new nation (The Moon).  An
excellent read and would make an outstanding mini campaign or just
incidental place to visit.

Peter
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so  zh+ vi-
      And life is harsh and rarely fair.

Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get.
  Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:36:15 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: MT Deckplan queries

<delurk>
Leonard Erickson wrote :-
<regarding spacecraft life support in an emergency>
> But you can't cut down air usage by much more than 50% (sedate all
> non-essential personnel, and cut the O2 in that part of the ship to
> only 1.5 to 2 psi. You don't *dare* drop it below 2 psi for the folks
> who have to do physical work, or whose judgement has to remain
> unimpaired. 
> 
> Likewise, you can't allow CO2 to build past a few percent.
> 
> It's possible to rig a setup that'll freeze the CO2 out of the air. So
> that's not too bad. But I'd have to look up the amount of O2 humans use
> per day. That's your limit for refugees.

There's a difference between oxygen uptake (ventilation) and
utilisation.
With air (0.21 atm partial pressure oxygen), resting (conscious, sitting
quietly) adult oxygen uptake is approximately 15mL/kg/min, while
utilisation is one quarter this.
	Multiply the value X 3 for neonates, X 2 for children under about 5
years.
	You could slow metabolic rate by 20% with simple sedatives. It would be
safer to give everyone fast drug if it is safe to do so in YTU without
monitoring ; or if circumstances are sufficiently dire, low berth.

</delurk>
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:21:55 -0400
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net>
Subject: Re: WotC & Hasbro

> 
> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:20:18 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: WotC & Hasbro
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > A chat with my local FLGS owner turned up other ugliness. Apparently WotC is
> > pursuing a direct-distribution scheme in combination with their recently
> > bought chain of retail stores, GameKeeper. At first (two months ago) this
> > resulted in independent game stores being dropped to the bottom of the list
> > when Pokemon, Magic, and TSR allocation was done, no matter how large or how
> > long they had been customers.  Now I'm hearing that any independent who has
> > the misfortune to be too close to either a GameKeeper or a ZainyBrainy is
> > being dropped from the WotC lists altogether. The store in question is close
> > to BOTH, and has just discovered that it cannot get restocks or new items
> > from any of the WotC/TSR lines.  Bad? Oh yes. Combined with the everpresent
> > threat of GW moving in and doing the same thing (this is California, so they
> > haven't yet...) we have the potential to lose a lot of stores and a lot of
> > product exposure in a very short period of time...
> 
> The store owners might want to consider a lawsuit.
> 
> - --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 

	This is the 3rd or 4th time you have recommended suing someone in as
many days. And though lawsuits are a legal and accepted manner of
handling disputes, the fact that there are so many of them is one of the
things wrong with this county. There has to be a better method of
conflict resolution than physical violence or legal violence. 

	ObTrav: If the citizens of the 3I had the lawsuit happy nature of
today, it would have collapsed under the weight of lawyers about year
400. So how do these issues get resolved.

- --
	Thomas Jones-Low
	tjoneslo@together.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:17:04 +1200
From: rboleyn@paradise.net.nz
Subject: Re: WotC & Hasbro

On 12 Sep 99, at 8:21, Thom Jones-Low wrote:

>  ObTrav: If the citizens of the 3I had the lawsuit happy nature of
> today, it would have collapsed under the weight of lawyers about year 400.
> So how do these issues get resolved.

They do things the way the medievals did - have lots of suits and no 
lawyers. Apparently the middle ages were a very litigious time, with 
villagers going to the bailiff for judgements on all sorts of trivial 
matters (by our standards, anyway). This extended all the way up 
the feudal system. That's why nobles held court - so they could hear 
the complaints of their subjects and judge those of the commoners 
(the knights and up got judged by their peers, not their lords).

I see the 3I as having this srot of system in many places, with the 
local imperial noble holding court. OTOH there'll be places where the 
local 3I rep only deals with some matter, and passes many back to 
the local system, like the Romans often did. However on most worlds 
the Imps only deal with Imperial matters (slavery, interstellar 
smuggling, piracy, etc) and the locals do things however they like. 
For example I don't think you'd get US style legal advocates in most 
high law theocracies.


- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1091
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